Fight! Fight! Fight!

Why Kindle isn't a bad optionDo you remember when you were a kid in the playground  and 2 kids started to fight everyone gathered around chanting Fight Fight Fight and then the teachers came and broke it up…. well here is the digital version, except I am not sure If i am one of the fighters or the teacher.

A good friend of mine Paul Nichols who is also a member of WordPress Goldmine wrote a blog post yesterday about how people who try to make money with kindle are basically making a mistake.

It’s an interesting article and does make some valid points however I do think that paul may have missed the “Big Picture”

You’ll find a link to Pauls post at the end of the article but here are the main points I took from it


Let me tell you why doing this is a complete waste of your time and effort.

When it comes to creating a business online you need to be spending your time wisely and by that I mean spending your time on things which are actually helping to (build your business).

Things like:

  • Creating more leads into your business
  • Improving conversion rates
  • Improving opt in rates
  • Writing new follow up emails for your leads and customers.
  • Creating new products
  • Creating new content for your blog
  • Creating new content for your subscribers
  • Finding new affiliates

On that point he is correct and I agree with him that is a great way to build your business. However what he missed there is that this is exactly what people who publish books are doing or at least should be doing.

There are a number of emails that I open as soon as they come in and those are ones from the authors whose books i read, every book should have a link to the authors website and on that site they should have a newsletter. I always without fail sign up if I’ve liked the book i’ve read as i want to know when the next book is coming so I can buy it.

A new Kindle book is nothing more than a new product, a good book  and a good author will achieve everything that he’s listed above except that instead of getting new affiliates you’ll be getting new readers via word of mouth.

One of the Authors I follow is Julian Stockwin you can see him home page below:

If you look at it you’ll see a newsletter signup box, details of the latest book, details of upcoming book, a shop where you can buy related merchandise and a the option to sign up for a membership which will cost $10. All of which is linked to in every book.

That my friends Is Marketing


Now…. let`s take a look at what you are doing when using kindle

  • You are spending time trying to create an income on a platform which you have absolutely no control over what so ever.
  • It does not matter which way you spin it, look at it, or say it, when you upload books to kindle you are running a massive risk and using a very risky and un-stable business model.
  • Just think for a moment if you had lots of books on kindle which were ranking high and bringing you in some money each day and then suddenly…Boom, Amazon decide to disable your account.

How would you feel?

You would feel sick right after putting in all that hard work?

And it does happen believe me.


Normally I would agree with Paul on the points he makes above, I would never tell people to build a business on something they can’t control. However Even if Amazon were to ban someone tomorrow they still have a physical product that they can use elsewhere.  The book can be added to the main amazon store via Createspace. It can be added to any number of alternative digital platforms including apple books.

It’s not like Squidoo or Hubpages closing down a site as you still have the product available and you will have built up followers if you have done it correctly.

The final main reason I disagree with Paul is that Amazon have a vested interested in getting as much content as possible onto kindle.

“For every 100 print books sold through the site, Amazon said it sold 114 titles for its Kindle e-reader device.”

The quote above is from a recent BBC article about Kindle sales in the Uk I have no doubt that it’s probably a higher figure in the US.

Kindle isn’t just a flash in the pan it is a very relevant business model and another way for Marketers to either get their message out or to make money it’s here to stay and it will only get better.

So to conclude I disagree with paul on a number of points, I think that Kindle marketing if done correctly is a potential goldmine and I know several people In  Wordpress Goldmine who are making more money with Kindle than they have with any other method.

Go and have a look at Pauls article then let me know what you think, Feel free to stand around chanting Fight! Fight! Fight!  (BTW if you comment on both posts you’ll get 2 links as we both use comment luv :) )
Pauls original Article is At:

Are you Trying to make Money with Kindle- Stop Following The Herd


Right off to calm down the members of the Kindle section at WordPresss Goldmine

[viralbait_buttons fb=”yes” google=”yes” twitter=”yes” linkedin=”yes” pinterest=”yes” ]



  1. says


    You hit the nail on the head, as of now I have not written a kindle book however the direction I am going in means I could and will, it will complement my site and vice versa. For me now its about building a brand that’s consistent and I feel kindle can be part of that.
    Plus as you mention when a book is written their are many avenues to use it. Finally the thing I have noticed on the forum is how much more chilled out and happy are the kindle writers than when they where chasing google about!!
    lee recently posted..How 10 Marathons In 10 Days Taught Me About Internet MarketingMy Profile



    Lol… I noticed that as well :)


  2. says

    Good post Mark as usual.

    Some very good tips in this article also mate, all of which i will be implementing asap.

    I firmly believe that eBooks can be as good a business model as any other, and if people enjoy what they are doing as they seem to when writing those books, then why not help and encourage them instead of putting them down.

    Well said Mark, thank you.

    Keith Evans recently posted..The Latest List of Sites To Use For Free Book Promotion.My Profile



    Glad you liked the tips Keith


  3. says

    Wow, I took away a FANTASTIC tip from this post! Thank you so much! I’m in the process of writing my first Ebook, so this will be very helpful.

    One thing Paul did get right in his post is that we all need a product and a sales funnel, whatever that may be. But I agree with you that ignoring kindle is a mistake. Why wouldn’t you market your product through every avenue available to you? He’s leaving money on the table if he ignores kindle.


  4. says

    This is how I see it. As more and more people try to become published authors, the value of kindle books, and their reputation will dwindle. And as I posted on Pauls blog, its like developing apps. 5% making heaps and the rest fighting over the scraps.



    I think like apps the guys that have the best funnel and connect to their buyers make the most money.

    Relying on just the appstore is a recipe for disaster, but if you can connect with your buyers you can channel them to your new products, I suppose the same is true for every type of product


    Jamie Reply:

    I don’t follow the logic of that. If the books published on Kindle are of good quality, the more choice readers have, the better. Mainstream publishing houses don’t stop publishing books just because they have enough authors on their list, they go on looking for fresh material to add to their arsenal.

    Amazon is no different – the more products it has, the more choice it can offer to its customers and the more reason for customers to return to Amazon to search for fresh materials – whether in physical products or digital like Kindle books.

    If authors don’t do as well as others it won’t be because of the volume of kindle books on offer but the quality and popular appeal the books command for a given market.


  5. says

    Mark, another excellent argument from you. I’m certainly not going to pick a fight with you anytime soon! I am a writer by profession so it’s inevitable that I will publish something on Kindle for all the reasons that writers feel compelled to publish, but as a marketer I think there are two main reasons to get your ebooks up on Amazon – one is for passive income via a perfectly managed set-and-forget platform (although obviously every bit of additional promotion helps); the other is authority. Anyone in any niche who can say their work has been published instantly jumps up a notch or two in people’s minds. If your business is offline, I’d suggest you publish your ebook as a physical book as well, using CreateSpace, and leave a copy with your client. You’ll achieve expert status in a nanosecond.
    Siobhan Gunning recently posted..Chris Farrell Gives Away How Simple Internet Marketing Really IsMy Profile



    Good Point about Authority, thats exactly why I published one of my books via createsapce into amazon


  6. says

    Hi Mark

    I’ve not heard of Paul so I went off to read his post! I think he is reacting, actually overreacting, to the situation a year or two ago when IM scammers were throwing all kinds of PLR crap into kindle and boasting about easy it is that their young daughters were doing it etc.


    Mercifully Amazon stepped in to protect their brand and kicked most of these buggers out. I think that is the only way we’d be likely to get closed down. In fact one of the most well known of these…individuals, did get closed down recently and is about to get a relative to front for him so he can publish more…crap.

    These guys I want closed down.

    As if “normal” IM was so safe and stable though. I have a blog that is currently climbing again after being slammed by Google and losing nearly all of its traffic.

    All business, online and offline has risks but I think Paul’s “red mist” attack on Kindle is either unbalanced and thoughtless or that we are all part of his devilishly clever piece of linkbait!

    Hmm, so you have a Kindle section in WPGoldmine? Interesting!


    Alex “Detox in 3 Steps” Newell
    Alex recently posted..Skin Detox – Step By StepMy Profile



    I do know where paul is coming from and i do think it’s a genuinly held view and not linkbait.. We have a very active kindle section in WPG I don’t know how the get time to write so many books! :)


  7. says

    I agree with you Mark – and not only because I’m two thirds of the way through a 70,000 plus word novel for children that I will (eventually) publish through Kindle initially.

    The trick – as you say – is in the marketing of yourself and your products.

    Perhaps the best business model is to have multiple income sources from many different marketplaces.. Like any sound investment plan – this is generally the best way to exploit the potential while spreading your efforts for the maximum security.

    Bill Smith recently posted..Google’s Mid-Life Crisis – Waving or Drowning ?My Profile


  8. says

    Hi Mark,

    I’m a published author and can tell you that Kindle publishing is the best thing since sliced bread! In this regard, I’m speaking both as a writer and marketer. I published my first hard copy book, back in 1977. Believe me, I know how difficult it can be to have books published the old-fashioned way! For the writer, Kindle publishing (indeed, eBook publishing) is like a breath of fresh air. No longer do we have to wait in line for publication, deal with publishing houses, editors, agents, and so on – the list of positives with Amazon’s Kindle platform, is a mile long. Wake up people!

    I’m currently working on my third Kindle publication. I’m doing a series of small Kindle nature books, which I’ll also bundle together as a larger publication. In other words, I’ll sell each small book as a stand-alone product, and bundle them as a single product, at a saving to the reader who wishes to purchase the entire series. Also, bear in mind, that there is nothing stopping me from selling them as hard-copy books on Amazon or elsewhere.

    Anyhow, I think Paul’s post is short-sighted, and only looks at the situation from an old-fashioned, internet marketer’s tunnel-vision perspective. As well, you really can’t compare book publishing to the development of “apps”. This is like comparing apples to oranges – they’re both fairly round, but that’s it! Believe me, folks, Kindle publishing is not a fad, but a road to the future.

    All the best,



    Laurie, sounds like a good process you have there, building small books then packaging them together


  9. says

    I am a newbe to the wpgoldmine and I have not read (so far) Paul’s article, but I will…..
    At this point I have to agree with Bill Smith when he says that “the best business model is to have several income courcesfrom many different market places.”
    My lifetime of experience ( I am 82 years old) tought me to diversify with anything and everything and at all costs. Equally important never, never fall in love with any one of your diversifications, they are not your life partners, they are just another different source of income….and when they stop working forget about them…..start another one….that’s exactly why I am taking on IM , it is a challenge in my age, but a rewarding one. So diversify and don’t fall in love with any of them, Have fun being creative…otherwise you are missing a lot in your life.
    Chris ( by the way, I just started my website and it is still an infant (not finished to go out in the world to be productive…but it is starting…….)


  10. says

    I think the best reason to publish on Kindle is so I can tell people I am an Author..
    Because when I tell them I do Internet Marketing they always thing it is “adult entertainment” type stuff.

    If you buy Paul or Marks products on list building and then applied that to your kindle books you would do pretty darned well I think..
    Paul Forcey recently posted..Daniel Honey and Paul Forcey PodcastMy Profile


  11. says

    I think that both you and Paul have made some valid points.

    The Kindle platform is growing rapidly, and if you’re a writer or publish info products, then I don’t think you can ignore it. But it shouldn’t be the core platform.

    Amazon doesn’t do much to promote a new author. They promote what sells (kind of like looking at gravity for ClickBank products). But it won’t sell without promotion, so that leaves you to promoting the book (at least initially) to get things going.

    If you are just affiliate marketing other people’s products, then I don’t think Kindle is a good choice to bring in traffic. You can build a list if readers follow the link to you site and sign up. And I’d say that they are pretty qualified leads — already bought from you and liked it enough to sign up.

    But you can’t build your list of buyers as easily as you would through other online selling methods. You don’t know who bought the book on Kindle unless they come to you.

    I think that having a book on Kindle does build your authority as you’ve mentioned. And as you add other books then Amazon will probably be more active in promoting you. But it certainly isn’t easy to get started.
    Bill (LoneWolf) Nickerson recently posted..Battling Comment Spam — Moderating CommentsMy Profile


  12. says

    Hi Laurie,
    Very well written post.
    I love it, but most of all I love your formular; Sell individual products and then bundle at a discount.
    Because it produces results and if you can do it once you can do it twize and if you can do it twize you can multiply it how often you want. Not just with books. With anything you are marketing.
    Good one Laurie and thanks, a few lights just went on as I was writing this post.
    Chris recently posted..What you think today is importantMy Profile


  13. says

    The more I read about this “controversy”, the more I’m convinced that we’re ultimately arguing about the semantics of front-end methodology. (Huh?)

    Mark, you mentioned that a “big picture” is being missed. I see a big picture being missed too, though we might not be talking about the same thing. :)

    Ultimately….Kindle vs. non-Kindle….none of it matters if no one knows who you are, or if no one cares about the materials you’re creating.

    Hmmm…I feel a blog post coming on myself!
    Mike Long recently posted..Have an “Internet Marketing Business”? Take Those Words to HeartMy Profile



    It’s getting Like the Royal Rumble… Bring it on Punk :)


    Mike Long Reply:

    LOL….oh it’s on! :D



    Mike I agree with you. Both sides of the argument are not seeing the big picture. People need to understand the basics of marketing. Products have life cycles. That being said, ebooks will die eventually.
    Yes the book is the asset but assets do appreciate and DEPRECIATE.
    I think people are missing the core message Paul tried to pass on. He is no against kindle publishing but he believes it is really hard to make great money with it (unless you scale up but for that you need a lot of money which is the reason why you are on kindle in the 1st place). That it is if you put that model and bench mark it with another profitable model.

    Someone said that Kindle publishers seem to be happy… I recall the adsense days and people were equally happy…

    However there are smart people that know this and take it a step further. They “insure” the asset by taking it to different platforms and getting into different niches with twitter accounts and facebook pages. I bet people will react better at an author page for FB than a like reveal take my freebie and I take your email… (with social marketing) That it is the big picture once you build your authorship fans will follow or read whatever you write.

    and Yes Mike it is semantics


  14. says

    I haven’t read Paul’s post yet but from your take outs I basically agree with him. Kindle isn’t a business model.

    The business model I am following is Andre’s TLB. (I’m sure it needs no introduction). If I was gaining some traction in a market, Kindle is one option I would look at for having my own product in that market. No more than that.

    The example you gave is an excellent one. I would absolutely have my own website to promote and capture leads there. Special author insights/content that is not available on Kindle. Maybe some giveaways. A limited number of free preview copies of upcoming books. I would sell my books as PDFs but let people know they can get the Kindle versions slightly cheaper.

    If I got the Amazon slap it would be business as usual on my own site.

    I have to admit that I have been tempted by Kindle but I don’t think it is as simple a lot BS IM products make out. I notice several comments here are from authors saying Kindle is a great way to publish your stuff.

    What if you are not an author? How easy is it to write one book and get any kind of decent sales, let alone several books.

    I bought one Kindle product that wasn’t great but it had a good quote from an author.

    “The worst thing you can do as an author is to get people to fall in love with your stuff and then have nothing else to sell them.”

    Rich Russell recently posted..Unfinished Projects? This Could Be WhyMy Profile


  15. says

    I think that the problem is that, as with most other “hot topics” in Internet Marketing circles (heard of “Pinterest” lately?), and especially places like the WarriorForum, many people end up thinking of these venues as ends, or businesses in and on themselves.

    That is, instead of saying “I’ll build a business around muscle building”, and then build a blog, Squidoo and Hubpages, social sites, article directories, etc. AND use Kindle as a tool and a marketing channel (good to get leads with cheap or free reports) and a marketplace (by selling higher priced books), they think that their business is “publishing in Kindle”.

    And publishing as many books as they can, no matter the topic, or the quality.

    If we compare it to the offline physical world, that’s like saying that your business is “opening shops in Manhattan in the block between the 4th and 5th avenues, and between the 65th and 66th street”. And you try to get all those locals and open a barbers’s shop, a bar, a butcher’s, a deli, a fashion store, a nightclub, a beauty salon, etc in that block, all because someone told you that this block was a good commercial place.

    Isn’t that plain stupid? Wouldn’t it make more sense to think that your business is, let’s say, operating a special type of hairdresser’s and then open several of them in many places across Manhattan, to build a brand and get more market share in a niche you know?

    But that doesn’t mean you have to despise that block between the 65th and 66th street either, “just in case one day the building burns down or there’s a flood in the area”, otherwise no one would ever open a business anywhere. If it’s a good place, it is so, and you should take advantage of it.

    The same thing happens with Kindle. It is a good place to help you grow your business, make use of it. I don’t think it will ever be gone for people that create and publish good content, but even if it did, take advantage of it while is there, as a part of your bsuiness channels.

    But don’t think that it IS your business.

    Mikel Perez recently posted..So, what is a niche market?My Profile


  16. says

    I haven’t read Paul’s post but based on your summary, I tend to agree with him….you don’t have a business if it relies 100% on your ability to write kindle books. That makes you a massive constraint on your business’s success. It’s not really something you can delegate. It might be something to add to your arsenal if you are trying to become an authority on something but only if you have the capacity to run various marketing campaigns at the same time.
    Ade recently posted..Internet Marketing Success Tips – Do You Keep A Swipe File ?My Profile


    Jamie Reply:

    I wonder what John Locke or other, equally successful Kindle authors would have to say to that. The ‘business’ doesn’t have to be IM.



  17. says

    Paul’s comments are provocative and, I suspect, deliberately so! For a marketer of his standing, he must know the great advantages to writers (published or rejected by mainstream publishing houses) that Amazon KDP provides.

    Where else would you find a site that is as popular and/or with as much traffic? Although writers must promote their own products using whatever good marketing means they have at their disposal (their own sites, listbuilding, forum marketing, buying traffic, book launches, etc, etc), they’d still sell copies of their books (albeit not many copies) even if they relied entirely on Amazon and Amazon’s customer reviews.

    As for the risk of one’s account being shut down by Amazon, that could well happen – if you abuse their terms. It happens with PayPal, Clickbank, Warrior Forum and elsewhere.

    When KDP first opened its doors to self-publishing authors, the IM market went wild and a number of so-called ‘gurus’ began using public domain material (and advising their lists to do so, too), to stuff Amazon with Kindle books they could ‘create in four hours’!

    Those accounts have been closed or are being closed and thank goodness for that!

    Amazon, like Google, wants original content. If writers provide that rather than cobbling together a short report from PLR and public domain material to publish on Kindle, then they are made welcome. If not, they deserve everything that’s coming to them.

    As Mark has already outlined the key points to counter Paul’s arguments, I won’t repeat them here but would like to stress that in any business venture (Kindle publishing is one such venture), one needs to protect one’s business by not relying entirely on one customer/distributer/platform. Don’t have all your eggs in one basket and you’ll be fine.



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