NewsFlash- WSO’s Are Not The Spawn of Satan

Blackhat or Whitehat

Blackhat or WhitehatOver the past 2 weeks 2 well known marketers have published posts that strongly criticised Warrior Special Offers. (Ryan Lee and Glen Allsop)

They both had valid points but Ryan Lee in particular made some sweeping statements. Most WSO’s are garbage,  Most WSO’s don’t work etc.

In the past I have done a fair bit of WSO bashing myself and I do think there are fundamental flaws in the system and that the quality should be controlled a little better.

However WSO’s do have a place in the IM market.And they are not all ripoff’s or crap products.

When I came into the business 9 years ago $37 or $47 was pretty much the entry level price for a lot of products. My first ever purchases were $77 for access to a forum and $97 on some site building software.  That level of pricing excluded many people from entering into IM.(I know some people who think thats not a bad thing)

It’s all well and good saying that all WSO’s are crap and having a link to you $495 coaching course at the bottom of the post like Ryan did but many people can’t afford that. Even if they did the coaching he is offering might not be suitable for them at this stage of their online career. If they can’t build a blog, do research or build empathy then they’ll fail no matter how good the methods taught are..

How can you learn the basics without spending a fortune?  By buying WSO’s or joining Forums when’re you’ll be able to learn from other peoples experiences.

The fact of the matter is that Most WSO’s aren’t crap, there is some great software that was initially launched as WSO’s in order to get feedback and find what improvements people would like.

There are solid money making methods released as WSO’s everyday that work… Everyday you can learn how to build lists, drive traffic and write articles that convert for less that $10 tell me that not a good thing!

But you need to put the work it.

Too many buyers purchase WSO’s with the attitude that if I don’t like the method I’ll refund it.

Whatever happened to Personal responsibility?

Learn to spot good WSO’s from bad WSO’s If you aren’t sure what the product is don’t buy it. Check the history of the vendor, check their posts out do they add value to the forum or just sell stuff?  Have a look at their previous products … are they launching their 4th bit of software in 6 weeks.. if so that should set alarm bells ringing.

Research before you buy!

I got a refund request today that said “this isn’t for me”  when I asked why he bought it the answer was “I was curious!”

I ask again whatever happened to personal responsibility?

If I buy a product and I don’t like the method I don’t immediately ask for a refund, I bought it based on what I perceived the product to be , if the sales page was accurate but I decided that the methods don’t suit my style of marketing thats down to me.

If you look for the refund policy on a product before you buy then you probably shouldn’t buy it.  WSO’s and IM products aren’t  “Try Before You Buy” products. If you are looking for a magic button you will be disappointed so don’t buy products that sound too good to be true.

Take every screenshot of earnings with a pinch of salt.. they can be faked and some will be.

If you want to learn to do something specific then look for case studies, also look for on going training.  When we launched No BS Listbuilding last week (WSO of The Day April 27th..  Hey, if it’s good enough for Ryan Lee to promote his products in his post I am happy to learn from him 🙂  )we deliberately added a Facebook group so we can continue to help the buyers over the long term.

 How can The WSO system be Improved?

What everyone seemed to overlook is that the purchase of a product is a 2 sided affair and that both sides of the transaction have to take a certain level of responsibility. The following ideas just seem like commonsense to me, I can’t see them being implemented as the Warrior Forum is a business.

I believe that fundamentally the whole system of WSO’s is pretty sound but there can be simple changes made that will make it better for both vendors and buyers.

For example, every product should have a proper help desk and not just an email address, support should be the vendors number 1 priority.

When vendor’s publish their first WSO that product should be thoroughly  reviewed and checked including any income claims to ensure it’s of a good quality, suggestions should be made for improvements if necessary.

There should be a minimum post count before you can post a WSO

Quality checking should be done on a daily basis to 20% of all products.

No comments allowed in threads from newly registered accounts or accounts with duplicate IP addresses

All reviews posted should be accompanied by some sort of proof of purchase.

A central registry should be established where vendors can list refunders, serial refunders should then be blocked from purchasing.

Ok thats it from me .. now over to you. I want your views and your ideas.

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Mark

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18 comments
Walt Bayliss

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the post. I have setup and sold many a WSO over my career – Launching new software and putting it directly infront of the people (marketplace) that is best suited.
There are incredible programs and top level software launched there and on other, newer, forums each day.
There is also a few ‘questionable’ techniques.
But – as a whole, you can really dig in and find value there.
Personal responsibility ABSOLUTELY!!

Everyone wants a magic Bullet
– A pill to help them lose the 10Kilo’s
– The collar that makes their dog instantly trained &
– the Website automated software that is going to push a button and fill their account.

Everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) of value requires work.
Grab onto a strategy and learn all you can in that space –
Danger – loads of good stuff means there is loads to distract you.
But – get on a path and stay there. Learn all you can in that space.

And the Warrior forums and hangouts, fb groups etc that come as a part of it, are excellent places to get good stuff and valuable contacts and feedback.
Thanks again Mark!
Walt Bayliss recently posted..Getting Started Online – InterviewMy Profile

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Dave Offen

Hi Mark,

It seems that WSO’s have moved away from what they were originally meant to be. Many vendors ignore that it’s supposed to be a special offer. I wonder how many products are actually re-sold at a later date on other marketplaces at an increased price? Too many people now see WSO’s as a one off launch/listbuilding platform.

But that’s not to say you don’t get excellent value! I have picked up many awesome trainings and software. I think there is a need to educate buyers. Too often I see people slamming 7 dollar products which offer incredible value, and slamming the marketer for adding an OTO.

Yes, there should be more transparency as to whether OTO’s are actually necessary, or just desirable. And personally, I don’t particularly like the dimesale model, though I totally get how effective they can be. But they can lead to impulse buys, before the purchaser has assessed whether the product is a suitable match for them which can lead to increased refunds and unsavoury comments on the threads.
Dave Offen recently posted..How I make money giving away FREE websites!My Profile

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Stephen Carter

you know what i would like to see on the warrior forum in the special offers section?

a proper ratings system.

right now you can launch a great WSO, but unless you know the right people you are unlikely to be able to draw enough attention from the marketplace to get traction.

on the flip side, the potential buyers have to read through hundreds of comments, most of them unfocused, to try and figure out what is good and what is not.

there should be a ratings system that allows buyers to leave a review and a rating, and that rating and the number of reviews should be visible in the WSO section. works great on sites like amazon.com. i think some people may have tried setting up systems like this offsite, but it needs to be part of the WSO section itself.

this would benefit both vendors and potential customers.

as for quality of WSOs, all i’ll say is that mine are sublime 🙂

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Jimmy wrex

Nice post Mark & I couldn’t agree more . . .

The reason I occasionally release WSO’s is simple . . . LEVERAGE.

My main business is running a membership site in the forex niche. That’s where I test and hone my skills. I also do a lot of affiliate marketing in that arena too.

Every now and again I package up the methods, ideas and results I’m having in that niche and sell it as a guide or case study. It’s just a way for me to get the most from the work I’m putting in.

(Nothing wrong with thinking outside the box)

I have no desire right now to open a $497 – $4997 coaching course, but I’m happy to share what is working for me in real life for a low price to anyone who’s interested. It also allows me to build a list of subscribers who are engaged and open to what I have to say.

I invest in a few IM products here and there and when I find a good one I can let my peeps know about it. I don’t promote often, but when I do it usually goes over well – especially. Since I give away a lot of detail about t he product & up sells in the email promo.

The mentality I like to push is that WSO’s and IM products in general should be tools to help you on your current journey. Not distractions to pull you off course.

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Alex

I agree for the most part Mark

no one can say(if they being honest and objective) that all products on WF are rubbish, there are lots of great info products and software there as well as many free threads bursting from the amount of value and solid advice and strategies, though “The fact of the matter is that Most WSO’s aren’t crap…” not sure, i believe overall there are more “bad apples” then good.
and as we all know it takes much less to get a negative feedback or bad reputation then positive, so no wonder many people are frustrated with WF (in case of Ryan and Glenn its a well planned and nicely executed campaign that brought good traffic, followers and sales i guess, one of the classics in action 🙂

on the other hand i think many people has been “spoiled” with low prices there and buy too many things because its easy to refund or they expect its going to make them lots of money within couple of days just from reading the report or downloading the software, like Walt said “Everyone wants a magic Bullet…” and i did and still do 🙂
don’t you?
yes it is a myth, anything worth doing is hard(can’t remember who said that and i’m echoing Walter again here 🙂
even finding the genuine people who provide good advice and tools might be hard and takes time
but its very easy to get sucked in by the sales copy, and all the (fake or engineered)”proof”, especially if you are newbie or desperate or even worse both. You come to WF and see all this people who struggled just like you and then they’ve found a secret and 3 days to 3 weeks later they’ve made $123.678 all with 1 hr/day work and no previous knowledge or experience… you know the drill 🙂
so of course many believe and get on the mission to find their magic formula…
some people wake up and give up, some wake up and get on the right track, some never wake up (and all cursing WF quietly or out loud 🙂 )
and the points you mentioned re due diligence and research before buying are good in theory but in practice many of them wouldn’t help and quality control from the WF admins – yeh i can’t see that happening either.

so yes – wrong mindset/approach/”bad luck” buying series of crap products/lack of research/personal circumstances/bad vendors/ lack of self discipline or personal responsibility or any combination of those = “all WSOs are crap!”

which some use to their advantage, which is smart IMO .

thanks for sharing and listening Mark
laters!

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Isobel

“All reviews posted should be accompanied by some sort of proof of purchase.”
And no “review copies”!

I understand also that if you give a negative review and are refunded, your review is deleted – that is WRONG. If someone who gets a copy for free can give a positive review, someone who got their money back should be able to leave a negative one.

I didn’t read Ryan’s post but I did read Glen’s – and he uncovered the Testimonial Circle pretty easily, but only I think because he bought several products in the same general area at the same time. It wouldn’t be obvious to most buyers and it makes a mockery of these so-called “testimonials” on new products.

/grump off
Isobel recently posted..One Year Lived: How to Do More in a Year Than Most People Do in a LifetimeMy Profile

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Bill Nickerson

I’ve bought a few WSO’s in the past, and while they weren’t all the cat’s pajamas, I always take responsibility for what I bought. If it was misrepresented then I’d go for a refund, but not just because it wasn’t a great fit.

I think that there needs to be a way for serial refunders to be dealt with just to keep credibility with the credit card companies. It hurts the entire industry. Perhaps a time delay on refunds might help. You have to try the product for at least 2 weeks before asking for a refund or something like that. But that may lead to more chargebacks which are worse.
Bill Nickerson recently posted..The 3 Little Pigs for the Modern AgeMy Profile

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Inferno

Hey Mark,

Good article brother.

I think Deal Guardian, the “new” WSO platform is supposed to have a lot of the fixes you want…

i saw it over on the WSO JV Facebook group.

*note* i’m NOT affiliated with either Deal Guardian, or WSO JV Facebook Group.

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John Lenaghan

I’ve got kind of an on-and-off relationship with WSO’s. I go from thinking they’re great to thinking it’s a cesspool and back again at least once a year 🙂

I doubt we’ll ever see any kind of quality checking being done by the Warrior Forum itself, however. From what I see, they want to stay at arms length from the sellers – they’re just a marketplace, they have nothing to do with the products themselves.

I don’t completely agree with that, and I’d be interested to see how that held up if something ever caught the attention of the FTC or a court somewhere, but that seems to be their policy. If they started doing quality checks, they would be inserting themselves into the buyer/seller relationship.

In the end, it’s all about personal responsibility, as you say. Unfortunately, that’s a resource that seems to be in short supply on the internet.
John Lenaghan recently posted..Some Useful Social Media ToolsMy Profile

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Ricky

I tend to take WSO’s with a pinch of salt, I do believe that there are some great products launched by many ethical marketers but for some its just a place to earn a quick buck by faking screen shots and getting your mates to endorse you and reciprocate.

To be blunt I am sick of the IM niche too many unethical marketers tend to sell others a dream that will NEVER be achieved. Their marketing is based on telling people how easy it is, since people are still looking for that magic button that will make them rich overnight.

The fact is you will have to put in the hard work to see any form of return, that’s what people need to start realising.

I have no pity for those that continuously seek the click today and wake up to £1 million tomorrow strategy. I also despise those unethical marketers even more.

I have avoided going to the forum since it has now become a waste of time awash with marketers that can’t afford to replace their crotch torn jeans bragging about how much money they make.

I’ve been ripped off in the past hence the reason why I loathe people who con others. I learnt my lesson the hard way and only a fool falls for the same thing twice.

As to buying a product on WSO I honestly doubt it unless they flush all the unethical marketers out and only allow the ethical ones to sell.

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Ken Glick

Mark,

When it comes to checking out the history of a WSO seller, can you recommend any websites or other online sources for doing so? Yes, I can check to see if anyone’s ever made unsolicited comments about a given WSO but some companies (i.e. vendors) write their own glowing testimonials about their product/service so I’ve grown wary of relying too much on other people’s comments when evaluating a product/service.
Ken Glick recently posted..Problems With Free-Product RecoveryMy Profile

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Mark
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Ken, you can get stats and refund rates etc from w+ and JVzoo

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Ron

Ii agree there are some great WSO”s, but there are also plenty of junk ones. The ones that are suppose to be the best, yet they are just spinning the same old information. Not to mention the fact that many are poorly written, grammar and spelling errors, and many are difficult to follow as they are not written in a easy to follow format. They go all over the place. Buyers shouldn’t expect a well written and understandable product?

The BIG problem with WSO’s is that WF members can not post when a WSO has a flaw or is not very good. How many times have you seen people post that a WSO sucks? Very few, and if they do, they get deleted because it is interfering with the sales of a WSO. That is ridiculous. WF members should be allowed AND encouraged to post honest reviews. I am not talking about bashing a WSO for no good reason, I am talking about being able to tell the TRUTH about a WSO.

I don’t understand the personal responsibility you talk about? You talk as if, a WSO is crap, we just suck it up? If it does not live up to the claims in the sales copy, we should just suck it up? Sorry, that sounds like the same mentality that is going on the WF, and the main problem.

Crap WSO’s should be called out. Period, end of story. ONLY then can the WSO section be a trustworthy place to buy. Doubt that’s ever going to happen. Sadly, It’s all about the money.

Sorry but I see far too many WSO threads full of people talking up a crap WSO’s.

I for one am not going to suck it up any more. I am going to start asking for a refund when it’s junk.

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Mark
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Ron, They generally only get pulled if the comments are unjustified, we had to get 2 pulled because the guy hadn’t even bought the product but was saying it was obviously crap..

A negative but constructive comment will normally stay on the thread but a comment by trolls gets pulled.

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Ted J

I would like to see a star rating review system for WSO’s along with proof of purchase. Like you said above, reviewers should only be able to submit a review if they can provide proof of purchase. This could be as simple as a receipt number that could be automatically verified. Star ratings could be seen on the outside of the thread, next to the thread title so potential buyers can get an immediate idea of the quality of a product before they view the thread and get suckered by the crafty sales page.

There’s been plenty of WSO’s that I have bought for super cheap that have provided great value. I’ve also bought my fair share of time-wasters. I’ve been seeing plenty of marketers attack WSO’s and saying they are all garbage. I don’t think that’s fair to say.

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Simona@buy used guns

I agree with you completely when it comes to personal responsibility. It seems nowadays that everybody on the internet takes services for granted and also they grant themselves right they do not actually own. Wake up, people.

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Dan@bali hut kits

If you buy something just because you are curios you should not accuse the seller that you were tricked..that the method didn’t work since you were not even motivated enough and you didn’t do your research before to make it clear for you what you are buying. You have to know before what do you want to learn and what are your expectations from WSO method. Cheers!

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jan schets

Great post Mark,

God knows the warriorforum could use some regulation when it comes to WSO’s.
I’ve bought crappy WSO’s in the past, promising so much and delivering so little.
Some form of quality control would go a LONG way.
Perhaps a change of management/moderator is needed 🙂

Cheers,
Jan

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