The Circus is in Town – Look at All The Clowns.

It looks like the big name marketers have a new toy and intend to play with it and intend to abuse it until it breaks. Yet another launch this week following in the steps of Video boss, List control, Mainstreet marketing.

Now we have Outsource Force from John Reese. Let me guess it will be $1997 course spread over 8 weeks showing you how to outsource. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz Same Old Same Old, here comes the bandwagon jump on board.

The thing that made me laugh out loud is that as well as being promoted by the usual suspects John Jonas who has his own course on outsourcing is promoting it.

Yes you read that right, a marketer with his own outsourcing course is promoting someone else’s course about outsourcing. Oh the Irony! Of course he also manages to damn the course with faint praise in his first email…

“A couple months ago I helped John Reese get started outsourcing to the Philippines.”

I am sure John Reese has been outsourcing for years but the comment above makes it look as if you’ll be paying $2000 to someone who has 2 months experience at outsourcing.

Now you don’t think a marketer would build a course around something he knows very little about would you? <==== More irony!!

So John Jonas If you read this tell us… Is John Reeses course better than yours or are you just promoting a course you haven’t seen for the $1000 commission? You have a good product so why act like a $10 Hooker.

Every Time I see this crap happening I get an Image of a nature program I saw about Vultures fighting over the carcass of an antelope trying to get the juiciest bits, the only problem is to these guys we are the carcass.

(There’s 5 more marketers that won’t promote WordPress Goldmine! :) )

Now it’s you money so you can spend it as you want. If you want to spend $1997 learning to outsource then that’s fine by me but there are much cheaper options (there is even a free step by step to outsourcing in the WordPress goldmine Forum). But whatever you do make sure you learn from people who are actually doing this stuff day after day and sharing what they learn.

Despite What some marketers seem to think Internet Marketing Is not just about trying to screw ever cent out of peoples pockets. In the right environment it can be about testing and sharing and helping people.

One of our members Chris wrote the Crossroads Methodology which is a guide about marketing to main street businesses. Another Member took what he learned from that made a few minor tweaks and last month won $34,000 worth of contracts. He then shared his methods.

You can and will make money from Internet marketing but please don’t feel you have to buy every product that comes out especially If there are much better cheaper options available!

Be careful out there and sorry for the mixed metaphors! I would really welcome your Comments on this…Am I right or just over reacting?

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  1. says

    Hi Mark, I bought into my fair share of these sort of glossy products, although only once did I manage to afford one for anything near $2k.

    I think they have their place on the internet and I am sure they will be helpful for many, but to charge this amount for something that is a tweaked and plucked version of what many of us already know is simply… I was going to say something else, but rather…. its simply sad!

    There is no call for this sort of behaviour from anyone, let alone those guys who are rolling in other people’s money. Is it a competition between them about how much money they can make and who will make the most from the next big glossy product release?

    Why worry? Fact is that all those who cannot afford anything like this asking price MUST find a much cheaper (or free) alternative. At the end of the day, those who are unable to shell out thousands will still find their own way to make their internet empire.

    Who needs the glossy products anyhow?

    Certainly not me!

    Kind regards and I hope you are all well on WordPress Goldmine!

    I’ve got a Warrior Forum Internet Marketing Challenge on at the moment so much hurry back to it. Its totally free and its filled with really good information (in my opinion anyhow). Getting great feedback too so must be decent.

    Joseph Archibald


  2. Vess says

    You are absolutely right! But most people are desperately naive, so it is so easy to take advantage of this fact if you have enough self confidence and low enough ethical standards.


  3. says

    Hey Mark,

    You are right. Absolutely. These over priced courses that are simply regurgitating internet marketing information just blows me away. They are getting more “polished” with their videos and graphics and appear professional but they are still vultures. The worst part of these type of offers are that it isn’t just the cost–it’s the continued upsell and backend offers that continue as you sign up (yep, I have been burnt before, can ya’ tell?).
    It’s time for some transparency in the Internet Marketing Guru world….provide some real value without the overblown hype and PLEASE stop bombarding us with so many emails that their relevancy is lost because of it. I have opted out of so many newsletters recently simply because of the lack of substance in the emails–and it’s too bad as some of them once offered good stuff. Now they just want me to buy their affiliate crap…
    It’s time to offer real stuff for real people–otherwise the “anti-guru” sentiment will grow and they will all be relegated to the dubious spotlight of the late night infomercial clowns.

    You were….ummm, “right on the Mark”, Mark….;)



  4. says

    Thanks Mark

    I really admire your ability to see these things precisely for what they are.
    “commission” + “bandwagon” + “vultures”

    I have a question for you though, and excuse me if the words come out a little wrong, the written word having no body language ;-)

    Don’t you get tired of telling people what they already know but just refuse to see?

    Hang on though “The Written Word Has No Body Language” maybe I could outsource that as a “Manuscript” or “Copywriting Course” and catch the bandwagon if i’m quick .

    Maybe not.

    Keep up the “laughing out loud”
    Ian McLaren ;-)


  5. Mark says

    Mark, you couldn’t be more right! I thought your using the analogy of vultures was being too kind to these guys who simply want to keep us as ‘prospects’ and are not interested in us becoming ‘marketers.’ I only hope that when I become successful at IM, I will pay it forward. I strongly believe that this should be part of my plan. There have been people that have helped me thus far in my short time learning the business, but they have helped me, not considered me nothing more than someone to keep promoting the hype to.


  6. DL says

    Iam glad you wrote what you felt. Now my hope it will reach the masses before they shell out their cash. Yes, I have been one who has jumped on the shiney bandwagon, but it’s posts like this helped me avoid to vultures.


  7. says

    I’m new to IM and I’m so glad that I found this post! It’s something that I’ve been thinking to myself every day when I see a product priced so ridiculously high! Thanks for reaching into my brain and posting my thoughts :)


  8. says

    I’ve become quite paranoid about the products and methods used by so-called internet marketers to get their foot in your door and then to go for the kill. The other thing I’ve come to hate is a window opening with a video and nothing else but a form for your details in order get all the info. I now just discard such approaches by closing it. I need short and quick info, not long-winded stories written for kindergarten kids who don’t know they are about to be fleeced.


  9. says

    Just want to add, I wrote a short article on the subject which was rejected by a top article website. Here it is if you’d care to allow it as a comment.
    Scrolls of Lies Discovered on the Internet
    The time has come for all those money-making internet marketers to place their laptops in hard to find caves so that in time to come generations to follow might discover these bulky recorders of lying scripts and make them public so that all may have a good laugh at the endless scrolls of communication that must have been intended for a totally uneducated and infantile audience.

    Modern technology will then be able to collate these lying scrolls and present them in the book form of the future for children to read as a means of endless entertainment. Gone will be the need for parents to be concerned about their children going astray as a result of drug-related activities. Now they would be living in fear of their children laughing themselves to death and pharmacists would become the richest people in the world trying to keep up with an insatiable demand for anti- laughter pills.

    Imagine, millions upon millions of sales pitches in modern book form, each one of them dedicated the author, “Lying Scroll according to Joe Bloggs”. What a read.

    Imagine, children in tear-producing convulsions of laughter coming to their parents with questions about these guru salesman of the past – “Were people really that stupid back then to believe all of this, mom?”.

    Imagine, parents trying to avoid their children’s questions and conveniently trying to change the subject lest they should be forced to admit that they were the stupid ones back then.

    Indeed, the children of tomorrow have something to look forward to and internet marketers of today will at last have made a name for themselves.The question is, are you one of the latter?


  10. says

    sometimes I think that all these gurus see us internet marketers as blind, deaf and very stupid children that need to be guided how to do easy things.

    yes it’s a nature of these boys – make “secret” infoproducts from obvious things :)

    Especially it’s fun to read sales pages like “Stupid lavatory rooms cleaner stumbes upon secret of making 1000$ a day on Clickbank/CPA/Adsense with no experience and no extra work needed!”

    I remember buying the adwords code by Michael Jones back in 2007 or 2008 for 1500$ – was in this boat some time ago. I played a lot with ppc those days and 1500 $ seemed to have real value that I dreamed could finally solve my adwords nightmares. Hmm, the result? when I sent this sh*t back and asked for the refund, I never got my money back. The reason to failures in PPC was simple – adwords is deadly expensive traffic source and clickbank products (that i promoted) convert much worse than physical products in general. It was obvious after 10 failes campaigns but I kept pursuing the dreams pictured in these sales copies, these 1000$+ a day CB incomes… and kept trusting gurus.

    michael jones keeps selling his new stuff and in every new product sales copy he posts insane clickbank incomes screenshots that are actually his profits from previously sold infoproducts.

    a couple of projects on odesk (no matter failed or successsful) can teach outsourcing more than these insanely-priced courses. but some people perfer to stay blind, deef and stupid and pay money to be taught by others.


  11. says

    Hi Mark.

    I’m very new to IM, just a month into it. But as desperate as I am for info on IM, I can’t ever imagine being tempted to spend $2K on this education. But, since these people do try to scam newbies, there must be someone willing to pay. Just hard for me to imagine.

    However, isn’t this a great opportunity for someone iike you, with a great product at a great price, to catch these newbie before they spend all that money? Yes, it does make us mad at the scammers tactics, but shouldn;t it also be looked at as a great opportuntiy for legit products. Shouldn’t we feel the need to try and prevent these victims from wasting their money. What a great feeling that would be, save someone from flushing away $2K, and maybe finding a new customer.

    I have been blown away with all the free info, or very low priced products, that are available on IM. If not for this help, I believe many newbies, like myself, would never get started on IM.

    And another thing I’ve learned in my short time trying IM, if you want long term success, do it the right way. Promote good products, with quality marketing, and the world will find you.

    Just my 2 cents, Bovic


  12. says


    That John Reese would come out with another $$ course is no surprise. That John Jonas would promote it is also no surprise.

    Both of those two are hucksters with cafefully crafted personas. The sad fact is they’re both very good at getting people to part with money for overpriced information products.

    The best thing to do is GET OFF THEIR LISTS. Sorry for the caps but it’s worth emphasizing.

    The more internet marketing lists people are on, the more clutter. The more clutter, the less focus on what really matters, which is putting your head down and getting to work.

    My advice for what it’s worth? Stay dialed in to 1-2 experts you trust, like WordPress Goldmine, forget all the rest, and roll up your sleeves and work at it. If you do, you will succeed. It really is that simple.


  13. says

    Nope, Mark, you aren’t over-reacting. I have seen far too many big bucks promotions lately. Your average internet marketer usually doesn’t have more than the $197 courses I see offered, and even they tend to be overblown.

    I’ve seen what’s probably the same information in the WarriorForum for a fraction of the price. Perhaps less polished, but information is information.

    These people do give us a bad name. And vultures at a carcass is a great analogy. It’s funny, though — even as few as 5 years ago, I remember all kinds of seminars that did the same thing — got you in for free or for maybe $25 and fed you lunch, then make you believe that their course for $1,000 will change your life.

    Same song, different arrangement. It’s just moved into the virtual world.

    Thanks for your post, Mark!


  14. says

    Couldn’t have said it better myself, Mark. I’ve certainly purchased my share of these “can’t miss” products. To this day, the very best value for any marketing product that I’ve ever purchased remains WordPress Gold. Simple to follow step-by-step instructions for using WordPress to generate steady income. So simple that it makes you feel like you’re missing something. Even better, the WPG Forum where people share and give more than any other forum that I’ve ever seen.


  15. says

    Hey Mark,

    You’re spot on with the vulture image.

    When ever I see one of those “new toy” I put them in a folder called “Saddle Up”
    because I know from past experience that if I go for the new toy they’re gonna ride me like a racehorse!

    WordPress Goldmine has been the only system I followed and never, ever regretted.

    Thanks for all the hard work!



  16. says

    Hi Mark,
    Thanks for the information. Like Julie above says, let’s hope this gets out to EVERYONE. It’s such a shame that some people have to stoop so low and prey on the unsuspecting. It’s been said before that most people starting out in IM get distracted by “New Shiny Objects”.

    If there only was a way to send up flags to keep people from being taken in by these folks……..Oh wait….. there is – Blogs like this!

    I’m so thankful to you for all you’ve done in clearing up the murky waters of IM, and teaching people how to have success WITHOUT having to spend a fortune!!


  17. George Schimanski says

    I have been trying to make it in IM for about a year and in that time have invested in some pricey shiny products. At the beginning anyways. Being strapped for cash, a funny thing happened, a lot of the stuff in these products was available for free, granted, it did require quite a bit of research, but it was there. Obviously this does not refer to the powerful specialized keyword research programs,
    When I see the $1000 plus offers I cannot help but think what the hell are they offering that possibly can justify the price? I listen to the videos, read the BS explanations, and the only conclusion I can come up to can best be described by your words ” VULTURES”.
    Sad part is that someone one out there will fall for it.
    Thanks for being so right on and putting this hyped up BS in the open.


  18. says

    If only people would stop paying these guys they would surely go away! For every sucker born each minute..There’s another one reaching for his credit card.


  19. says

    I have to agree with you 100%. I can’t stand these Guru’s and their overpriced, rehashed stuff. If you look hard enough you can find these materials for FREE. Recently I though one of the Guru’s was actually going to give something back without an upsale or a price tag attached, boy was I wrong. I even wrote a nice commit on his site which they didn’t publish. When that happened I knew something was up. He lead you in with a couple of videos then dropped the bomb. I don’t bother with these people any more, I just drop them. I have only bought one course and it was on CPA ($77) and it was well worth it. The best way I know how to do it is, find a system that you are comfortable with, put your blinders on and master it. Thanks for the article, maybe one day people will wise up.


  20. Knilles says

    But as I read along the lines, you do think the outsourcing program of John Jonas himself is solid and good?

    I have been looking at his site Replacemyself before and I thought everything sounded reliable, but any experiences are welcome.


  21. says

    Aside from being ‘spot on’ with your observations, you should also get an award for your ability to write headlines. …look at all the clowns,, Great!


  22. says

    Talk about irony! I just bought Chris’s $37 product. On the same day, I got an email inviting me to pay $2997 for Mainstream Marketing. I suppose it is possible that their are enough ‘extras’ to justify the difference in price, but somehow I doubt it.

    There is a massive lesson to learn here. If somebody is charging more for their course, it just means that they think that they can get away with charging more for their course. Not that it is actually better.

    What has always worked still works, as long as you are prepared to work at it.

    If you still believe that there is some magic bullet that will provide online profits without any effort on your part, you really should think about sticking to your day job.



  23. says

    The other side of the coin is that will those big name IM guru survive if they go back to their root and promote those $97 eBooks course? No way they can survive with that kind of business given how big they have grown.

    Still I don’t think many people can see through the videos and think like you do Mark. They will continue to be buyers who believe this is the next breakthrough they are looking for.

    I think they will be more IM guru coming out with similar tone promotion and charge an arm and a leg just to sustain their business.


  24. Scott Mills says

    One of the things that I find interesting and troubling about the Internet Marketing industry is the constant reselling of a package on “unique” ways to make money by selling a “unique” way to make money.
    Sure, there are programs designed to help a person learn how to market effectively to earn commissions via affiliate programs and you can thus market some product a person actually buys and uses in their daily life … for example: becoming an effective blogger and sharing your experience with some kitchen gadget and you can market an affiliate link to amazon or some other site.
    Sadly, most folks are desperate and simply decide to become a “super-affiliate” or some such silliness, and simply market the product they just bought. Of course there IS a market for this sort of thing, but too seldom do folks actually do something to sell something besides an electronic download of some series of pdf files or videos that hype how “you too” can do this.


  25. says

    You are so right Mark, and no, I do not think you are over reacting. I signed up for one course that cost me just over $300 CDN and once I realized that “teacher” was not telling all, I moved on. Then I found Travis Sago and he taught me Internet Marketing (IM) at NO cost to me. As Travis stated, he would gain from our learning provided we followed his instructions (which I did) because he used his product to teach us IM. I do much prefer win-win-win tutoring and I gained MUCH from Travis’ teaching.

    Since then, I have found several IM courses for under $50 US Funds… and they are the courses I signed up to. No more expensive courses for me. There are plenty of hungry tutors out here waiting to share… really share with their students.

    The WordPress Goldmine you introduced me to earlier and again here, is a very tempting offer and one I shall have to take a second look at.

    Thanks for stating some of my own suspicions in this posting Mark. It’s about time someone said it out loud. And, it sure is a treat to read all the other comments posted… that others feel the same way! Pheeeeeew, to think that many times over the past 6 months, I thought I was alone in MY thinking the same thoughts!


  26. Kate says

    Mark, Well said and may some of them be smart enough to listen. You and your forum are my constant (even though I am one of the quiet ones) with real people helping and supporting each other. You have proved you can be trusted and that you care about those who follow your advice.
    Like many, I too have succumbed way too often- however, everyday I am unsubscribing to these ‘vultures’. I find their great lack of integrity quite disgusting and I am sorry I have helped fund it over the past many months.
    Thanks for being you.


  27. says

    You’re so right, Mark. As for me, I’ve gotten sick and tired of these “big time gurus”, I unsubscribed from their list a long time ago! Like a lot of people, I’ve had my share of blunders, bought expensive courses, fell for the hype but now I’ve learned my lesson.


  28. says

    The people who are going to take action after purchasing a product will do so whether it’s a $2,000 product or $7 product. The “gurus” rely on the fact that so many hopefuls will purchase the latest and greatest shiny object that shows up in their email inbox.

    Thanks for providing a reasonably priced product and common sense approach to internet marketing.


  29. Gayle says

    Yes, I am tired of all the bull! The so called Gurus that just repeat themselves. My emailis constantly full of products or info. that’s being promoted! All you have to do is click on them and it’s basically the same info., just a different twist. Theirs is the only one that works or the only way you are going to make it in internet marketing! I am really tired of the blood suckes and the only time I can say ” Thank God I don’t have the money to spend thousands on their products”.
    I am here to make money, not waste it on the greedy!!!!!!!!!!


  30. says

    I can’t help remember back when a friend of mine was a used car salesman for a few years. I’ve been there before when the vultures, uh, salsemen, would come in after closing a deal. Their favorite saying was, ‘I ripped his/her head off!!,’ when they really screwed someone. Actually quite proud of taking advantage of someone, as much as was possible. I know, ‘Buyer Beware’ and all that, but some people are okay with making money, the more the better, in any way they can. I guess I’d never make it as a used car salesman.

    I remember when one of the guys sold a 1970s Gremlin to an obviously very poor older lady that had to take the bus there to buy the car. They had about 0$ in the vehicle, other than the time it took to write $1,295 or something just as ridiculous on the windshied. The lady had to make payments on the car (‘On the Lot Financing’ – probably 28% interest), and would come up on the weekends (on the bus) to look at it, and take pictures. They all got a lot of good laughs out of that one.

    I realize this isn’t exactly the same as what goes on in IM, IM is sometimes worse!! Many times the same information, being reworded a bit, is offered up for sale again and again. You know the products can’t be all that when they are ‘free’ bonuses to enitce the victims, uh, customers to buy the next product that’s released. (Im not talking about JR’s product, or any specific product for that matter, I’m sure there are very good products, and marketers out there)

    I wonder if some of these ‘Gurus’ (that word really turns my stomach now) have their own private ‘Ripped their Head Off’ forum where they can stroke each other and compare bank accounts ?

    Lastly, I found that there is enough information on IM available for free to give most anyone at least a good start to making money online. That’s not to say there isn’t stuff out there worth paying for, but I’d bet there are many people that practically bankrupt themselves trying to buy every ‘latest and greatest’ product to be released – many of those individuals probably never make any money either.

    Some people just suck!!

    Sorry to make this so long.


  31. says

    No over reaction here. Although I prefer the term bottom feeder. The really sad thing is these guys pray on human weakness. When someone is inexperienced or desparately needs to make money they want a quick fix.or a magic button to push. These people then get exploited by a bunch of douche bags, get their hopes and dreams crushed and have their pockets picked clean.

    Years ago I was involved in MLM and they called these guys heavy hitters. Apparently this phrase got cleaned up and now these guys are gurus. But its the same hype,lies and b.s.only with a higher price tag. Hopefully most people know there’s no quick fix and wont buy this overpriced garbage,unfortunately some will.

    I only wish people could see how exploitative and two faced these guys are, They dont care at all about their subscribers. They see them as a bunch of sheep to be led to slaughter. They think others work so they dont have to. Frankly they make me sick. But worst of all they give our industry a bad reputation. So no your definitely not over reacting, if anything you’re being too kind.


  32. Charlotte El Amin says

    Hi Mark,
    You feel exactly as I feel, but I have never heard anyone say it before. They are just like prostitutes. I have unsubscribed from all of their lists. An if I had a subscription with any of them I canceled it. I’m paying them money to send ma an email everyday with some expensive program belonging to someone else–PLEASE. There is one marketer with expensive products who sends 3 emails a day!! Can you imagine? Thanks for speaking out.


  33. says

    It is such a shame that that people just can’t seem to realize that that the ONLY business model for these clowns is to take money from unsuspecting people for programs that are either completely worthless, or at best, ridiculously overpriced.

    The bad news is that no one can regulate them out of business. All they have to do is provide a product, no matter how worthless. The new F.T.C. rules? A joke. Have you seen the new legaleeze disclaimers that actually mention the F.T.C.? They all say something along the lines of “we are currently evaluating the average success of our students as per the F.T.C. rules”. What a crock. The average R.O.I. on their junk products is zero, but hey, that’s what lawyers are for.

    With so many new people looking for a way to make money on the Internet everyday, these bloodsuckers have a never ending supply of new marks with big eyes and open wallets. The best we can do is try to warn as many as we can.

    It reminds me of the American gold rushes. The people who made the real money were the shop keepers who sold the supplies, the bars and the whorehouses. The miners who were dreaming of getting rich quick never had a chance.

    Some things never change.




  34. Ken says

    I couldn’t agree more, being part time there are only so many hours to read and implement every new strategy. How many products just sit on your computer and don’t get used for lack of time.There is plenty free things to learn to get moving. I am wondering how many people buy all that stuff with money they made online or their own pocket?


  35. Shane says

    I have to wonder who has that much money to spend, especially as a newbie. I dunno, these guys must get some money off it or they wouldn’t do it.

    We need more honest, ethical marketers out there. Thankfully you are one of them!


  36. says

    I don’t believe you are over reacting at all Mark. I thought it was refreshing to see someone actually voicing their opinion about the way some marketers act. Internet marketing does not have to be all about squeezing every last dime out of somebody’s pocket.
    I know I certainly can’t afford the better part of $2000.00 for something i can definitely learn for a whole lot less. I believe that there are several full time marketers out there that actually care about what they are promoting, and and I think you might be one of them.
    I just finished reading the Article Dominance pdf i got, and found it to be very informative.
    Thanks , and I wish you all the best


  37. says

    Hey Mark,

    I love you man.

    You are the “Braveheart” for Newbie Affiliate Marketers.

    “They may take our money, but they will never take our FREEEEEDOOOMMMMMMM!!!!”

    God bless you brother.



  38. says

    Hi Mark,
    I am so glad you wrote this post and no Mark, you re not overreacting. I call it robbing Peter to pay Paul which enables the gurus to keep expanding their pockets.
    Thanks again for posting such a down-to- earth topic!!


  39. says

    Hey Mark,

    I actually bought John Jonas’ course on outsourcing, and with where I am at in my business right now, it is exactly what I needed and provided excellent value for me. I couldn’t figure out how to bridge the gap between outsourcing freelance and having a true virtual assistant, and this program (not really right to call it a course) really helped. Although I couldn’t agree with you more when you say “You (John Jonas) have a good product so why act like a $10 Hooker.” It is annoying.

    In fact, with John Jonas’ information I have hired a full time assistant in the Philippines a week ago to take care of some of the things I just don’t like to do. The guy I hired is doing a good job so far. Lots of learning curve stuff, but I’ve hired and managed hundreds of people offline, so that is nothing new to me. I have also had excellent customer support from his program. I’ve emailed 3 times and all 3 have gotten fast and informative responses.

    That being said, the John Jonas program is not for beginners. Don’t buy it unless you know how to make money online and have a system in place to do so. It will be useless to you.

    As for $2000 programs – blech. No course is worth that much, unless you are going for one on one mentoring.


  40. Robert Ellis says

    Hi there well I am glad to see someone tell it like it is.I too am tired of all these kings of the net pushing thier lunches on new and uneducated newbies.It’s just a crying shame.To me they no better than con men and they don’t deserve my attention at all.As fur me they all go to H_______.Sorry but you get the idea.


  41. says

    Yes Mark I totally agree.

    Trouble is that there are still many people who are gullible and will shell out ridiculous amounts for this crap and most of the time will never use it.. Who decides that a course is “worth” $1997. I’ll bet that when it comes right down to it you could find the same information for pennies on the dollar somewhere else.

    Now don’t get me wrong. I’m all for I.M’ers making a good living – that’s why we do this. But give me a break from all these hyped up over-the-top product launches. What happened to the honesty and guidance we should expect from these people?


  42. says

    I don’t think you are over reacting on this, I’m totally disgusted at the moment and I won’t by anymore of anything that is sent to me by email. Number one, I don’t have money to throw away on lessons that will take me forever to learn. I would be happy to make $5.00 a day on line.


  43. says

    I agree 100% Mark. In fact, I had virtually the identical thought process as you when I saw a) John Reese’s pre-launch video and then b) John Jonas’ promo email. It struck me as being a bit like Wal Mart sending out an ad for Target, saying they helped them learn how to build a discount store so now you should go buy stuff from them instead.

    I suspect John Jonas is hoping to get an “in” with the San Diego crew – Reese, Kern, Jenkins, Koenigs, etc. and thinks that promoting this might do it.

    Do you have inside info that this is going to cost $1997? I actually kind of doubt that John Reese can pull those kind of numbers anymore. The last couple of things I’ve seen him do were more like $300-500 if I recall correctly. I think he’s kind of moved into the shadow of Frank Kern et al.

    He looked like a fish out of water in the video I watched for this outsourcing thing. I thought he was really uncomfortable and forced looking. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.


  44. says

    No Mark, you are not over-reacting!
    I am a newbie, well, less than a year and still not making it> It is so discouraging when you see all these so-called gurus selling their stuff for so much money. How, as a new IMer, are you supposed to know any better? i never bought any of those very expensive products because I flat out could not afford them.
    I see the same thing for sell in a different package. Heck, they even teach you to do that with PLR!
    If a marketer really wanted to help a new person, they would do it without these ridiculous price tags.
    I don’t know how those guys sleep at night!


  45. Paulette says

    Bravo Mark! It about time someone had the balls to say what many of us is actually thinking. There is a special place in hell for these internet whore mongers. What is really sad, is that every internet marketer will and is being tarred with the same brush.

    There is one interesting MO that each of these launches has in common, the clever hands of the same video producer/marketer. Now I view/listen to the BS, just in case there a kernel of new knowledge that they have to share, then I unsubscribe.

    Nuff said!!


  46. Tony says

    Definitely not overreacting.

    Quite frankly, the Warrior Forum is a breeding ground for this kind of crap. There is definitely great information to be had over there, but you have to sift through a ton of junk to get there. The whole model there is based on selling products to other marketers in the form of “WSOs”. The guys that run the site make a pile of money, the successful WSO promoters make a pile of money, and the unwitting newcomer parts with their hard-earned cash thinking that they are finding the next sure thing. It’s a very crazy closed economy. The feeling I get reading anything over there now is that every answer to a question is really just a way for the poster to push their product. Everything feels like a sales pitch.

    I’ve spent a grand total of $19.95 on one product, WordPress Goldmine. No goofy promises, just great basic information about methods I was interested in. I spent a month in the forum and thought the folks there were sincere, helpful and focused on getting their businesses running… not on selling the other members a load of goods. I didn’t re-subscribe simply because I’m intentionally trying to NOT spend any extra money.

    Mark, you are absolutely right. Unfortunately, as long as someone is gullible enough to spend $1997 on this stuff, they are going to sell it.


  47. Larry says

    I’ve gotten to the point that I think there are a lot of people purposing to help and instruct those who are at there mercy because of lack of knowledge. So wanting to further their education become VICTiMS. It is a great case for buyer beware. No personal instruction is offered, it is all automated. Its making the almighty buck personal integrity is non existent! In the case you are upset about it appears to be a prime example of getting a fat commission check.


  48. Cyndi says

    Thank you Mark for your very candid synopsis of our “Guru” buddies. I dare say there are more than the JR’s and the JJ’s out there though. a whole slew of guru wantabees. But listen……After you receive the 10 paragraphs of babble and b.s. do as I do….scroll through all the crap until you reach the bottom of the page (where all the wordiness and hype is going to be worth the price they are asking…NOT!) look at the price that they think you are stupid enough to pay….LAUGH….delete…and unsubcribe! It makes you feel great! There are some honest, sincere and trustworthy marketers that really do want you to succeed and will give you their best without asking for body parts. (arm & leg)

    PS. Anyone claiming they have a “Secret” anything…is being deleted into cyberspace. If it quacks like a duck………


  49. John Patterson says

    Whereas I do agree with you Mark, I do also find all this sanctimonious chest-beating going on in most of the comments to be so much humbug and BS.

    If everyone is so critical of what these guys are about, how come that it seems as though everyone of the replies seems to know so much about what it is they are peddling? Perhaps it is because everyone actually DOES want to know whats on offer so they feel as though they are not missing out – or is there an even more hypocritial reason?

    Just as with programs we may not want on TV – where we have control over the ON/OFF button on our TV remotes – so we can either opt-out of these mailing lists or just delete them. But no, that does not seem to be the case. It does seem as though people are not only staying on the mailing lists of the people they criticise so much, but are actively watching/reading the content. Hmmmmmm.

    All we are seeing is the evolution of marketing using another medium, this time the internet, as compared to years/generations past. Then it was the printed word, with scammy mail shots and shiny-object type personalised direct mail pieces. The only difference with the internet is that we can actually turn off these “mailers”. but the people who criticise them so much seem not to want to do that.

    I am not my brother’s keeper. Lord knows I have enough problems leading my life, without trying to be a sanctimonious policeman in the life of others, who we somehow feel need us to pat them on the head with dire warnings of this and this.

    The internet provides to all of us the greatest marketplace the world has ever seen, or will ever see. Will some people take advantage of that? Of course they will. Are all of these people unscrupolous? I would doubt that very much. Do they offer something of value for what they sell? Probably, or people would not keep buying it.

    I just do not see it is my place to get indignant over the fact that successful marketers are just that, no matter what it is they are peddling. People do not have to buy their wares – but they do, and they keep doing it. Which must suggest that either they are all stupid, or that actually what is on offer does have a value. I leave it to you to decide which.

    To quote an old UK saying “You pays your money and you takes your choice”. And I guess that IS the point of this post of mine. It is a FREE world and people can buy what they want from whoever they want. Just as you can say what you want about the people you are having a go at, and just as I can maybe give you a different perspective.

    As Winston Churchill said – I may not agree with your opinion, but I will fight to ensure that you are allowed to express it.

    And so it is will free will. People will do what people want to do and no amount of chest beating by me or anyone else will stop that. And I hope that never changes.

    All the best.


  50. says

    The market is saturated with marketers trying to make money out of people trying to make a start selling online.

    Many starting out are doing so because they have lost their jobs and the job market is tough.

    The last thing they need is someone taking the last bit of cash they have when in return they get what?

    There are some genuine and knowledgeable teachers / marketers out there and these are the people / organizations that ought to be promoted.


  51. says

    Hi Mark – like you I am sick to death of the plethora of ‘offers’ that I am bombarded with on a daily basis. First they sell themselves as ‘the experts’ and the next thing you know, they are endorsing our endorsing somebody else. Kickbacks indeed. You hit the nail on the head. Oh to be withoutscruples!!!


  52. says

    What’s more ironic is when I have a good product of my own that I sell for the same price or even higher than the product I am promoting, and give my precious product as a bonus to those who will by someone else’s product through my affiliate link. I would be sending a message that my product is worthless.

    Should I expect to be able to sell my next product? Or people who know me would wait until I give it away as a bonus with the next product?


  53. Donna says

    I’ve followed John Jonas at times, and I’m sort of stunned by this. I’ve always considered him a
    credible guy, but if what’s noted here is fact, I have to wonder what’s happened to him.


  54. says

    well I think that everything being said and when you add up the scores at the end of the day these guys are playing by all the rules. Now most may disagree with my thought here but so be it. Here is what I’m thinking, marketing is designed to capture the prospect and make a sale. These guys did not get rich just playing by simple standards. But they do play by the rules of the marketing game. Now on the flip side I do agree 100% with Yahia these comments that they make and the back and forth video tactics are quite obvious and easy to read between the lines. But on the up side they are playing there own game and good luck to them. I think that most of the targeted traffic that I am chasing would not be playing in that game value anyway. So if they are happy in that arena then better for me. The players that piss me off are the ones that are flooding the market with there $ 9- $27.00 products and the discount price drop downs. Now think as a prospect here for a second if you will. You decline to buy some product then when you close the window it magically becomes 50% off. Well you as a business person should know what that makes people think, but what they do not realize is what is that kind of crap putting in the prospects head. just makes them more nervous of the rest of us serious marketers
    Just some opinions and views I share with you.
    Take care


  55. Garry says

    I also received the email you mentioned from John Jonas. I didn’t look deeply into it, but my take was different . . . perhaps naively so.

    I thought Mr. Jonas was using the Reese videos as an endorsement of his own (Jonas’) program. I took it that he was saying, “See, even Reese is promoting the benefit of this stuff. Reese learned from me and obviously saw the value.”

    But I also thought it was a strategy that was awkward so maybe I was just plain wrong.



  56. michael says

    I am new to the IM game. Like a wise man, i have been trying to find a credible source to learn the markenting game. i have done the wealthy affiliate and the IM classroom where they claim to have a step by step blah blah blah. in reality, they put out small pieces of info at a time over months to keep you as a member. Mean while, they are not really showing you a damn thing. I bring this up to say this. the only truly good business model is one that has integrity as a base. most people would pay any price for what they seek if they were getting an honest return on their money. im starting to think that the whole system is based on how many suckers can be scammed a day. are there any real marketers out there who actually want to earn honest pay for honest work. Snake oil anyone!!!!!!!


  57. says

    Thanks for speaking out so openly and honest about this. We should all learn to share and without the objective of hoarding, or even exploiting those of us who maybe less knowledgeable (i.e. draining newbies or overzealous affiliates financially) who are just eager to learn and to likewise make money from their hard work. I personally believe that there is enough to go around.


  58. says


    I must commend you for being bold enough to speak your mind.

    I am subscribed to a few of these jokers and I keep reminding myself to unsubscribe but I find their abrasiveness quite amusing. I have 4 or 5 of them constantly promoting one another’s “products”. Sadly, I didn’t go looking for these guys – I indirectly got introduced to them via IMers that I actually respect.

    Keep up the good work! Honesty will prevail.


  59. says

    I just thought I would announce my new email marketing course
    It features a meercat fighting marmots on video and clearly illustrates how to use marmots in outsourcing to cut your costs an make gazillions of bucks.

    Marmots are cheap to keep ( we have them captive on Borocay Island and they are all specialists
    in article marketing and SEO – the course is available on eJunkie for only $12,000 .

    Puchasers should be aware that this is a product featured on April First

    Have a nice day ( I loved your outsourcing book btw)



  60. Sophia says

    Thank you for this post -very refreshing and encouraging -thousands of $$ don’t have to be spent to learn how to make a blog! :) always appreciate your authenticity -it’s really great in the world of vultures (as another commenter so aptly described it)!


  61. says

    Yeah, but no matter what we say they will carry on making their stuff and flogging it to new people all the time.
    The only scenario I can see decent people winning is if there is an uprising and a revolt.
    All the best Mark.



  62. Geez says

    I find that the serial offenders get annoying promoting virtually every darned thing that comes their way. Seems that way. Then I unsubscribe.


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