Internet Myths #346 – The Money Is In The List

By Mark / June 17, 2010

You are being Misled!

That’s not some marketing trick to get your attention it’s the truth. Every day you are getting emails from marketers and they are misleading you.

Some of it is deliberate some of it is just misguided ignorance.

Whether it’s telling you about some great new product that will make you millions of dollars…that they haven’t even seen or Just telling you that you that Guru x just did a million dollar launch most of its bull.

In fact next time someone tells you about a million dollar launch do the math and take off affiliate commissions, taxes and refunds (many big launches can have massive refund levels) and that cool million dollar launch won’t look anywhere near as impressive.

What really gets me is the lie that gets trotted out regularly each month “The Money is in the List” I wish I had $10 for every time I’ve heard that.

The thing is the money isn’t in the list, if it was then the guys with the biggest lists would be winning every affiliate promotion competition and making more sales than anyone else. Whereas when you look at the competition results quite often the guys at the top of the leader board are people very few of us have heard of.

The reason why is simple… the money isn’t in the list at all. The money is in a well-targeted and prequalified list.

There are two types of email marketers, those that do anything to get you on their lists and those that only want people on their lists they feel they can genuinely help. It’s really easy to spot the difference.

With the first type you see their email and usually ignore it or delete it without opening it.  With the 2nd type of marketer you see their email and open it immediately or in some cases wonder why they haven’t sent an email out.

There is also a big difference between the way these 2 types of marketers build their lists.

Type 1 will make you sign up before giving you any information, just think about all the big launches that have happened lately.  You need to sign up before you watch any of the videos, look at Product Launch Formula 3 for example (what was wrong with 1 and 2?  Ohh and is it only me that see’s the irony in a product launch series about a product launch product..surely everything is in the launch series J)

Type 2 marketers give you lots of good information and only once you’ve read through it will you get a chance to subscribe. By doing it this way type 2 marketers ensure that they are sending information to people who want to get that type of information. Their lists are much smaller but highly responsive.

When you think about it its common sense really but that tends to be lacking in many marketers.

One of the best exponents of this type of prequalification marketing is Andre Chaperon. If you go to his Affiliate Bully website (no that is not an Affiliate link!!) you’ll find more good free  information about affiliate marketing than in many sub $100 e-books. ..Actually I’ve seen a $197 book with less useful information.

Go and have a read then come back and tell me (use the comment button below) if that isn’t the type of information every internet marketers should give out!

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Mark

https://plus.google.com/me/posts

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28 comments
Steve Upton

For me that is like finding the “needle in a haystack”. I’m with you all the way on this one Mark for me it has always been about the people.

I wrote something along the same lines a while back on my whois blog and have always tried to make people understand it people you need to understand and deal with not lists of names.

The info Andre shares is of the highest caliber and I really appreciate what he is doing and yourself for bringing it to our attention.

Cheers

Steve Upton

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Mark
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I don’t think I’ve agreed with a comment more on this blog…it’s about the people, follow, learn and be inspired by people you like

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Joy

This is so true! I for one had downloaded your “Article Dominance” and loved the simplicity and helpful information in there!

I immediately signed up for your mailing list.

Then out of the blue came another Free report “Website Promotion”…..I was hooked.

If you gave such useful information away for FREE then I definitely wanted to become a part of and try WPG!

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Chris Jerrett

I wonder sometimes if it’s because these marketers have staff to pay every month and have large overheads so they are under pressure to burn through their lists, they see it as a numbers game.

This is probably something I’m guilty of myself to a certain extent – not aggressive marketing, but I certainly don’t have any 5 page squeeze pages like Andre Chaperon has in the link you provided. (I joined his list btw – thanks) It’s the question of preselling the opt in.

I can see the benefits of both approaches. I certainly can’t argue against prequalification. It’s what we used to call filtering traffic in the old days. But say your ultimate goal is to help as many people as possible. Isn’t it better to get people onto your list and then provide them with great information and value? Or is it better to provide great information and value before asking them to opt in?

I honestly prefer the prequalified approach in theory. My opt in to Andre Chaperon’s list was about as prequalified as you can get. It was endorsed traffic (I came to this page from your list) and then further prequalified by the great information and value on Andre Chaperon’s site.

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Bea

Thank you for the excellent info. I’m one of those ‘contrary’ types of people. I’ll read a sales page and often be quite ready to whip out the old credit card and hit the Buy Now because the product sounds wonderful. Then, instead of getting right to the buying page, there’s an opportunity for an upsell…and my first thought is, “No. You made this sound wonderful, and now you’re letting me know it’s ‘almost wonderful’ and if I buy the upsell, it really will do all the things you said the original product would do. I don’t like it, and don’t buy it.

In fact, I find it insulting to my intelligence. I wish more product producers would realize that.

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Tom O'Reilly

I’ve recently opted out of more than a dozen lists. These guys that bomb your inbox every single day are the worst. Please don’t send anything unless it’s relevent and useful. And, I get so many emails from people for whom I know I’ve not opted in. How can they think they’d ever get a favorable respnse?

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Stephen

Yes, spammers whom just want to build lists by the thousands are not real marketers and need other spammers to help them succeed. Avoid all that… Your advice is right on the ball. Target interest groups only, no point in expecting a strong conversion rate otherwise.

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John Park

Good article Mark! I have to agree with you on that one. I would rather have a list of 1000 people that are interested in one topic or category than 20,000 misc. people that just wanted a free e-book.

Thank you
John

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Wayne

I read every word.. some pages twice. Listened to the entire 12:23 minute Seth Godin video.
Amazing stuff, and I have to agree with ALL of it. Of course, I opted-in at the end 🙂
The content definitely hit me where I am right now. I have been working at this IM stuff for about a year and a half – making some income, but I could make more per hour by bagging groceries at the local market. My methods and motivation have been way off base, for sure.
The information shared here is, hopefully, a “light-bulb” event.
Thanks for sharing.
Blessings,
Wayne

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LoneWolf@WWW Ramblings

Mark, this is a great post. The targeted list is very important. Hard to build though.

If you can build a good list, what would you say is a decent rule of thumb on income? I’ve heard $1/month/subscriber. Does this seem realistic? I know that it depends on the niche you’re targeting, but lets assume for now that there is a decent profitability in the niche, say something like fitness or online marketing.

One thing that I have to contend with in your post is the idea that a million dollar launch isn’t so impressive when you factor in all the expenses. If I could work for 6 months and do a million dollar launch, I’d be ecstatic with 10%, and I’m sure that the number is more than 10 in reality.

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Shirley

Great post! I agree 100%…I just unsubscribed from a “list” because the sender didn’t even bother to check what they were sending.

The email started with..

Hello {Firstname fix}

It was also in the subject line.

I figured this person is not interested in building a relationship they are only interested in selling me something….If it was’t important enough to “fix” the “firstname fix” issue I gotta figure they honestly don’t care.

I did wait to see if they would have sent out an apology or a mistake email. Nope just another email asking why I hadn’t checked out their latest offer.

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Rebecca Massey

I totally agree with these comments! As a “newbie” marketer I have been suckered in to more stuff than I care to admit and my inbox looks like a train wreck. i get those “firstname fix” emails too. I don’t even have a list and I know that’s not cool!

Thank Mark for the useful information you always offer. Yours is one list I will never hit “unsubscribe” to.

Here’s to more “type 2” marketers.

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Terry Tiessen

Great article and a topic close to my heart. I would prefer quality over quantity in most things in life, my list is no different. Thank you for the introduction to Andre Chaperon that was a quality recommendation. I also had a thought about the motivations for building our lists and what it says about the Integrity of the marketers intent. We all need to make money to live but how we make it and what we are willing to do for it speaks to our character. As Andre Chaperon pointed out and confirmed my thoughts on the matter, it’s the relationships we build that is the real wealth and I know I could not relate fully with a list of 20,000 non targeted people but would love a tight “tribe” of 200-300 like minded people looking to me for solutions to there common problem.

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Karen Cioffi

This is a great post. It really does get annoying when you are bombarded with marketing emails with links that take you to a landing page which you have to scroll way down to the bottom to find the cost, or you have to subscribe to yet another site to get the promised information.

I follow the #2 strategy. I always provide quality information in my niche, and as you mention, at the bottom is a reminder to subscribe to my newsletter.

I also give free workshops to help others.

Thanks for sharing.

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Wanda

Mark

This article was by far one of the best that i’ve seen online in a long time. Nothing compares to a quality and targeted audience which does take time to acheive. This article was well-worth taking the time to read in its entirity and I enjoyed every minute of it!!

Thanks Again!

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Bob

Mark: It’s a real shame it takes us (me) so long to learn this.

For almost a year I joined every giveaway event to “build a list.”

As a result, my list grew, my AWeber bill went up, and I had a
completely unresponsive list.

And why shouldn’t they be unresponsive? They just signed up
with 10 or 20 people that are going to pound them with continuous
sales offers in daily emails.

The last several months I have been practicing the principals
you have outlined here.

Now I am helping people and building relationships in niches
I have become completely involved in.

It’s much easier to shave my face each morning….

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Mark
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Bob,

I was talking to someone the other day who had been advised to join loads of giveaway events , I suggested he didn’t, for the very reasons you mentioned

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Anton

I’ve did a huge clear-up of my gmail in January 2010 ….and I’m still unsubscribing from casual “lists” that I’ve been caught up the way #1. This is so huge time-sucker – I men just opening and reading these emails.

I think now I’m a member of max 10 lists that truly deliver the info I need as a marketer, including offers of courses or soft that really makes difference in my online business. Only about 10 people that understand what I – “average IM Joe” – need. Sure I buy from them and never regret of my buying since this happens to be what I really need.

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Rieke

Ultimately I realized that some well known Marketers bombed my box with JV-offers. The text makes clear that they don’t know the product or in other words: they only repeat – sometimes even in poor words – what the product owner is promissing.

I ask myself: Why do they behave like this? Now, most of the time I don’t even open the mail and move it directly to the trash.

These people who really had create something very valuable and therefore buildt up a good relationship, now are doing everything to become less truthful 🙁 And for what reason? To earn more money….

Mark, Bob – you are absolutely right, actually there are only a few guys on the web, worthwhile to follow them and be subscribed to their list.

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Bea

Hi Mark,

I just ordered the WP Goldmine special through PayPal. Does it take eight days (when the $1.00 passes) before I can access all the materials and the forum? Sorry to contact you here, I’m a complete newbie.

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Mark
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No you have access immediatly Unless you paid with something like an echeck but in most circumstances you can dive right in by loging in using the details you joined with

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Andre Chaperon

@Mark – thanks for the kinda words mate.

> But say your ultimate goal is to help as
> many people as possible. Isn’t it better
> to get people onto your list and then
> provide them with great information and
> value? Or is it better to provide great
> information and value before asking them
> to opt in?

@Chris Jerrett – its not about “wanting” to help as many people as possible. It’s about only helping those people that want to be helped and have a burning desire to go somewhere.

End of the day you really don’t want people on your list that really shouldn’t be there (dead weight – which you pay for).

My AffiliateBully.com funnel “filters out” around 60% of people. Meaning that only about 40% of people that land on the first page, make it all the way through – and then opt-in.

Which is exactly the outcome I want.

> The information shared here is,
> hopefully, a “light-bulb” event.

@Wayne – glad you found value in it.

> The targeted list is very important.
> Hard to build though.

@LoneWolf – It’s prob’ly not as hard as you think.

> I’ve heard $1/month/subscriber.
> Does this seem realistic?

It just depends on the relationship.

I’ve got that number up to $15/subscriber when I’ve promoted a product. Just depends on the VALUE you deliver … and how well you match a product (or content) to the needs/wants of your audience.

> I’d be ecstatic with 10%, and I’m sure
> that the number is more than 10 in reality.

Problem is that when these guys get a 60 – 80% refund rate, they essentially “burn” the reputation they have with their unhappy customers.

Not ideal for a long term relationship.

That model works for them because they constantly have their “friends” and bought affiliates topping up their lists when the next launch comes around.

Andre

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Laurie Lacey

Hi Mark,

Interesting insights! I like your perspective on list building, although
I must say that I’ve received some good results from JV list building
events.

Andre Chaperon’s “Affiliate Bully” site is dynamite! I really like his
approach, using lots of good content. I think this would be an
excellent way to increase subscribers to a membership site. My
head is spinning with ideas….

All the best,
Laurie

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Easy Website Creator

Hi,

I agree with the sentiments of the article. When list building don’t do what I did before I knew better. I was giving away very good ‘freebies’ to those who opted in on my squeeze – nothing wrong with that right?

The problem was that I had targeted the entire planet. I had a fantastic number of sign ups who promptly unsubscribed as soon as the freebies dried up.

I can completely understand people in the third world doing this but ever since I have targeted the USA, the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand only.

Regards
Lawrence

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Website Flipping Tips

Mark:

As always, great stuff. I just spent the last 15 minutes going through Andre’s 5 step process. You’re right, the quality of content is awesome. The main thing I took away from his content, however, was “free access to an email list” isn’t good – in his opinion. That really struck a chord with me and has me totally rethinking how to build a list.

Maybe I won’t force someone to buy something to get on my list, but the idea of making sure they really want to be on my list is something I need to implement.

Travis

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John Burnside

It is about the quality of the customers not the quantity because then you can be more assured that they are going to click on or look at what you have got to offer. However I’m not going to say that it’s useless to get the ‘type 1’ people on your list because you can get the odd sale out of them or they may talk about your product. so quality is much better but if you can get quantity as well you should but only target quality.

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Ed

I’m nervous a little and curious about the product he’s about to promote to me. And whether or not it can live up to its promise for the reasonably hard-working Joe

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Gordon Ferrell

Thanks for blogging about Andre’s unique approach to list building. I need to read it again
to digest all that he wrote. My biggest question I have is how to market this kind of squeeze
page to sites with very short attention spans, like traffic exchanges and list builders.
I see how a pre-qualified lead is more valuable in the long run, but it will take longer
and require more patience than most people have. I hope that I can develop that kind of
patience. I look forward to learning more from Andre as I read his future emails.

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